It is good. And people may have heard of the mostly later tradition where theyd tie a rope to the person, to the high priest, in case he wasnt so pure and he dropped dead and they had to drag him out. There is literally no informationnow, this ritual, when you read Leviticus 16, theres a lot of detail here; weve already started with some of it, were going to have more detail as we go, but exactly whats to be done, there is no detail on how this goat is to be killed. For anyone who leaves the Orthodox faith for Protestantism, this becomes an easy issue to take up and throw stones back at the Orthodox Church. And I looked this up: what is the earliest use of this word? Because obviously, if you interpret it purely as related to sins and the forgiveness of sins, then not everyone in the world has their sins forgiven, but And so you have to And thats where Peter Lombard in the eleventh century comes up with the idea of sufficiency and efficiency, that Christs sacrifice is sufficient for the world but not efficient for the world, and on and on and on. Coming from a Protestant background and having read Revelations a couple of times. Fr. It doesnt say that it was fulfilled by Jesus absorbing their diseases and becoming sick, or absorbing their demons and becoming possessed himself; he doesnt take it on himself in that way. Fr. So thats the idea. Its not a big mystery. The idea Theres a presupposition there that its somehow mechanical, that God saving us is like an elaborate Rube Goldberg machine in an OK Go video or something, where he puts things in motion and at the end somebody gets saved. 1 John 2:1 talks about Christ as the high priest who intercedes in prayer, and then 2:2 says that Christ is the atonement, not only for our sins but also for the whole world. Instead of avoiding or invalidating problem passages out of discomfort, Fr. Dr. Stephen De Young, Orthodox priest and an expert in ancient languages and a scholar of Biblical theology joins me for an interview about his newest book. Andrew: I can hear you! So that was kind of over-translated. Fr. Fr. She would therefore have passed her DNA to some of her children (especially to her son Canaan) and later descendants, so that individuals of large size and/or psychopathic behavior could therefore reappear later in history. Stephen: Yeah, it was Antiochus IV Epiphanes. Stephen: I know you really want Goat Week to be a thing. Fr. Andrew: All right. Stephen: [Laughter] Nothing to do with thatas far as I know. Stephen: Az is a goat. [Laughter]. Andrew: They are not, and most people who have breakfast are not breaking a fast. Atonement for the Whole World - The Whole Counsel Blog Andrew: Yeah, which were actually about to show you how its the opposite. Kuehn, S., Monster. Fr. Sorry, everybody. We need the blood, because were going to use the blood to do something. Andrew: Thats fine. There are sort of a handful, I think four or five, uses of it in the first century AD and later, and like half of those are by Plutarch, by one author. Fr. So I dont think they were putting their sins on presbyters. So theres two goats, right? Boom. Fr. We are happy to have you. Fr. I am so thankful to have found this podcast, which is a wonderful resource on content and context! Stephen: Right, and this goat is so unclean, by the way, that the goat would be led out by a designated person and tied to a bush or a shrub out in the wilderness, and the person who did that was rendered unclean by it, from just like being around that goat, the sin-goat. Fr. Andrew: Yeah, because if theres anything God does not want you to do, its worship anything, anything else. [Laughter] Its very literal. Stephen: So this isnt transactional, so its not an issue of, like, Oh, well, maybe there were some sins that got missed during the year, so were going to do this sort of catch-all Day of Atonement to pick up those ones that were missed. Those were being done perpetually to cover all of the sinning that was going on, that everyone knew was going on in Israel. So I mention all that because, as we read Scripture more and as we live the Christian life more, if we understand what it is that Christ is doing and how the Scripture tells us what hes doing, then that gives meaning to so much of our lives. Im going to make it look like that? You know what Im saying? Johannes U. Ro and Diana Edelman, BZAW 534 (Berlin: de Gruyter, 2021), 263-88. All right, well, the third half is going to be the shortest half. Fr. Fr. Fr. Richard Rohlin? Yeah, yeah. They and their children were sprinkled at the blood at the beginning of the old covenant, and now we have been sprinkled and purified with the blood of Christ. So thats the non-narrative theology way to say it. Fr. Andrew: Awesome. Andrew: Yeah, back to where it belongs. And thats what described, like in Daniel, as the abomination of desolation, because it rendered Yeah, they couldnt use the Temple any more after that. Orthodox Christian priests Fr. You wouldnt like it. Length: 2:12:00. Stephen De Young and Fr. Fr. Fr. Stephen: Right. Well, okay, lets talk about St. Matthew. For 10% off your first month, use the link, http://www.faithfulcounseling.com/gospelsimplicityMost Christians. They have to be the best goats, both of them are the best goats. Stephen De Young inquires into what they reveal about the nature of Christ and His creation. Fr. So not only for our sins, which are taken away, but for the whole world, which is now purified and made holy and sacred, first in potency, first, as with everything eschatological, this is happening in real time, like we talked about in our Halloween episode, but this will ultimately come to fruition, then, in the new heavens and the new earth, just as, right now the evil one is bound and in a hole, and hell be chucked in the lake of fire then at that latter point. Fr. Are these just religious-sounding synonyms for good things or bad things? To learn more, view ourPrivacy Policy. Stephen: And then as Hebrews again makes plain in Hebrews 11-12, Christ dies outside the camp. So it had this prominence beyond those other books. Is atonement purely theoretical? Fr. Google Podcasts - The Whole Counsel My only criticism of The Religion of the Apostles is that its purpose seems ambiguous. The blood of that goat is used to purify the sanctuary, to purify sacred space. [Laughter] So, yeah, thats the word itself. . Well, for first-century Judeans, that is the place of the Battle of Emmaus, and that is related to the Maccabees. They werent sitting there with the knife, and keep the fire going at the burnt-offering altar, because someone might show up with a pigeon. Stephen: Yes. Fr. Its just a good, good word for one thing, but yeah, yeah. Stephen: This doesnt mean its not historical, because any historian has to choose details to include and details to omit, and will write about things and describe things in certain ways. Mahaksapatalika (Isaacs Jr.). So hes using atonement in this biblical sense weve been talking about, of purification, but Christ does it by living it. Fr. Fr. Well say what gets done with it first, then well talk a bit about Azazel. Fr. Ill take it. Okay, perfect example; this is probably the classic example: Matthew 27:25, where the people say in response to Pilate, His blood be upon us and upon our children. Now, given everything we just said about the blood of the goat, and given everything you should know if youre a Christian about what the blood of Christ does, if his blood is upon you, thats actually good. But if we understand it as covering, which is the perfect word, because were about to talk about what this actually does, but the concept is based on this idea that there is sacred space that has been set aside for the holiness of God to be present there with the people, but that the peoples sins interfere with that, that they actually stain the place. Fr. Stephen: Right, that was later. Stephen: Yes, so allow me to feed that a little bit. What does that stuff say about him? Stephen De Young. To actually go in there to purify that space. In response to what he viewed as not merely a malformation but a destruction of the Eucharist in Roman practice, John Calvin was dogmatic that the Eucharist is not a sacrifice. Thats for all of my Southern friends out there. So, sort of prophetically, it said theres going to be this sort of eschatological Day of Atonement thats going to take care of Azazel and take care of this sin and corruption and take care of sacred space sort of once and for all. Stephen De Young Easily the most important work in Pauline Studies, and likely in Biblical Studies as a whole, of the current decade is Matthew Thomas' published Oxford dissertation, Paul's "Works of the Law" in the Perspective of Second Century Reception. Andrew: Yeah, and most Semitic languages work this way, so if any of our listeners are Arabic-speakers, which I know some are, its again those three consonants make up pretty much every word in Arabic. People have atonement theories. [Laughter] So instead, now, this goat, this completely corrupt goat, has to go outside the camp, the city, outside, back out into the bad place, and its going to Azazel. Fr. But is this like the one time you can touch it, when this ritual being performed, or is it sort of sprinkled from afar? Were about to talk now about how hes also the goat for Yahweh, but I just wanted to link these two things together actually from a very familiar bit of hymnography for Orthodox Christians, and thats from the doxology, whether the little doxology or the great doxology, if I remember correctly, this line is in both, where we sing, O Lord God, Lamb of God, Son of the Father, who takest away the sin of the world; have mercy on us, O thou who takest away the sins of the world. Okay, so he takes away the sin of the world and the sins of the world. Fr. [Laughter]. I think thats the King James Version, at the beginning of Acts. One of the doctrines that Rabbinic Judaism removed from their religion was the teaching widespread in the Second Temple Period that God is more than one person. Andrew: Okay, but these three things: wrapped around with a scarlet cord, being beaten with a reed to drive it out, mocked and spit upondoes that sound like anything to anybody? Andrew: Now everyones going to want to read it! [Laughter], So, right, it has to do with when the ritual is described in Leviticus 16I know everyone knew that off the top of their heads, Fr. (2015). Hebrews 9: Likewise he sprinkled the tent and all the vessels used in the worship with the blood. Fr. So it does end up being germane to our topic this evening. And he is picking up from this, basically Enochic literature, this Second Temple literature, a certain understanding of the cosmic aspects of the Day of Atonement and of this eschatological Day of Atonement. St. Paul the Mystic - The Whole Counsel Blog The fact that some of the most exciting work done in the Second Temple context to the New Testament is being undertaken by non-orthodox scholars like N.T. And where does that actually first show up? Could that be the real AI apocalypse that we should be worried about? Thats okay. So when we look at the Day of Atonement we have to start with the fact that it is doing something different than the sin-offerings are doing. Okay, so, but there was something else also, a connection from John 17. Fr. Its just regular I mean, the tent-covering of the tabernacle was made from goat hair. While underscoring the continued need to take into account the historical context that forms the background to the New Testament (at least I got that right), Fr. This is so cool. It includes that, but the way that they tell the story is designed to teach you how Christ, in this case, is the fulfillment of what was given in the old covenant. Stephen De Young finishes up the discussion of Revelation, Chapter 12, and starts on Chapter 13. Bible Studies - Saint George Orthodox Christian Cathedral Stephen: So you see this same dynamic, the end of Luke: Luke ends with Emmaus, and then theyre in the Temple, and you pick up Acts and theyre not hanging around in the Temple for some reason, because St. Luke uses this imagery of, now, re-dedication of the Temple being the whole creation, and then, now that its been rededicated, the presence of God, the Holy Spirit, can come and dwell in sons, daughters, everyone, because of this purification that has happened. Academia.edu no longer supports Internet Explorer.
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